"A Minority Doesn't Want the Old Mass Any Longer" -- Franciscans of the Immaculate and Roman Opponents of the Vetus Ordo

Edit: many want them to go quietly into the oblivion shared by those religious orders that have not remained true to the vision of their founders, but they don't intend on going quietly.

(Rome) Following the exposure of Vatican Insider as the mouthpiece of the rebel group in the Order of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, it is aptly trying to limit the damage for the sake of balance. This includes an interview with the only official spokesperson of the Order, Father Procurator General Alessandro Maria Apollonio. Father Apollonio expressly rejects the attempts to reduce the provisional government of the Order by the Congregation of Religious to "internal tensions" that have nothing to do with the traditional Roman Rite.

From the interview it appears that there is a small minority in the Order, which is known to be led by Father Alfonso M. Bruno, but that this alone would not have been able to be effective. The input of six brothers in the Order to the Vatican Congregation offered but others obviously can find, against better judgment, a welcome pretext to act against the Order.

The interview also reveals a certain weakness of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, whose significance seems limited. The Commission had previously approved the procedure of the General Council of the Order with the introduction of Vetus Ordo. However, this official confirmation had no relevance for the Congregation of Religious.

Some things the matter of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, are so fundamentally different, the two questions are reminiscent of the final stages of officially frozen unification talks between the Society of St. Pius X., and the Holy See. The Superior General of the SSPX, Bishop Bernard Fellay, spoke in the fall of 2012 that "signals" had come from Rome, which made ​​an agreement seem possible. Indeed, such was already virtually certain at Easter 2012. But then everything changed. The "conflicting signals" were interpreted as a synonym for a power struggle back in Rome back ( see separate report ).

Some seem to suggest that the Order of the Franciscans of the Immaculate constituted an example to be directed against the Old Mass. Still unclear are the exact relationships, such as whether it would deter other orders, also to discover for themselves the traditional form of the Roman Rite, or whether the examples were even targeted against Ecclesia Dei communities. In tradition-bound circles, the scope of the attack quickly organized a protest that has been recognized and grown, which does not seem to have unimpressed Rome.

The interview was conducted by the Vatican expert Andrea Tornielli.

Why was an Apostolic Visitation of the Institute approved by authorities in the Vatican?

Because it was demanded by a minority among the brethren who no longer share the leadership of Founding Father and General Minister and the desire to promote the Vetus Ordo next to the Novus Ordo in the institution, as required by the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum and the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae.

How important was the question of the old Missal in connection with the apostolic visitation?

It had great importance because said group of brothers accused the founding father to have imposed the Vetus Ordo on the entire institution. The accusation is absolutely false, but it was believed, and all our attempts to convince the proper authorities that it is false, were to no avail. Meanwhile, the false assertion by various media and news agencies became more widespread to cause serious damage to the reputation of our founding father and the institute.

Websites related to tradition interpreted the message of the provisional administration and the decision to stop the use of the old Missal's permission, as undermining the Motu Proprio of Benedict XVI. Do you share this view? How do you comment on the appropriate decision?

Father Lombardi has clarified that the measures do not undermine us regarding the Motu Proprio. However, we are waiting for an authentic interpretation of the liturgical rules of the Holy See that affect us. Indeed, it is not clear, for example, who the "competent authorities" are, of which the above authorizations may be granted: the Commissioner, the Congregation of Religious, the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, the local bishop, one or the other or all together?

We hope that this is a temporary disciplinary action, and that we will, as soon as possible, again allowed to celebrate in the Vetus Ordo, as we have always done, and that without the current restrictions that rob us of that, even though the Motu proprio Summorum Pontificum and the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae have higher universal force.

In the corrections to our articles you have always stressed that the use of the old Missal was not exclusive and that all decisions were made in accordance with the provisions of the Motu Proprio. Is it true that the Ecclesia Dei Commission had asked the Franciscans of the Immaculate to exercise prudence in the Apostolic Visitation, regarding the manner in which the use of the old Missal will continue?

Yes, and we have acted with utmost restraint and in complete respect of our particular law, which confers the General Chapter "the highest authority in the Institute" (Constitutions, § 81). It was just the most recent General Chapter in 2008, which stipulated that the General Council (i.e. Father Stefano M. Manelli and his five consultants) to create a detailed protocol for the introduction of Vetus Ordo in our communities. This introduction was performed with the letter dated 21 November 2011. The Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei was invited in advance as a precaution d to examine the letter, and they realized that it was equivalent to the mens Holy Father Benedict XVI. This official assessment took into account in any way for the further development of our affairs. The thing seems inexplicable to us and it hurts us a lot. We have confidence in our cause the heavenly Advocate, Queen of the Seraphic Order.

Interview: Vatican insider
Introduction / Translation: Giuseppe Nardi
 Image: Corsiadeiservi
Translation: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com

AMGD


Link to katholisches...

"They Knowingly Lie" -- Franciscans of the Immaculate Defend Themselvesin Official Statement

(Rome), the Franciscans of the Immaculate seem to have caught on after a first moment of shock. The Order has now responded with two official clarifications to a number of false reports that were apparently and deliberately circulated in connection with the decree of the Congregation of Religious. Both explanations are directed against Vatican Insider . The Order has precisely recognized, that this news platform are some Vaticanists, from which emanated the article with false reports. "They are lying and know that they are lying," said Messa in Latino about the behavior of some journalists. Unaudited reports were adopted by Catholic media and broadly disseminated. In recent days, it has been repeatedly claimed that it was not about the Old Mass in the whole thing. In reality, it is first and foremost on the Old Mass.

Vatican Insider as a Smoke Screen against the Franciscans of the Immaculate and the Old Mass

Even the report of the commissarate over the Order of Alessandro Speciale on July 30th was a smoke screen. Speciale reported on the actions of the Congregation of Religious, but also mixed a number of false reports in the article that were to serve to justify the extraordinary measures. For this purpose, he presented a supposed "spokesman of the Order," which he had cited in detail, thus giving the false impression that these were official statements. In reality, it was a leading representative of the "rebellious, progressive minority" (Roberto de Mattei). The statements of the alleged "speaker" was a single ignition out of smoke grenades, which were taken as stated by many Catholic media.

The supposed "spokesman" justified the Roman intervention allegedly because the order had been "exploited" as a "mediator" in the unification talks between the Holy See ands the SSPX (lie 1). He also described the ominous internal "poll" (lie 2) as the first in circulation, and even an "overwhelming majority" (lie 3) of the members of the order report that they would reject an "exclusive" celebration (lie 4) Tridentine Mass "especially in pastoral care in the parishes."

So it went on 2 August at Vatican Insider with the article about the unconvincing attempt by Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi to placate in the matter of the Franciscans of the Immaculate. This time the article was no longer marked by name.

Slanderous allegations against the founder of the Order and the Old Mass

The statement by Father Lombardi was clearly then apparently much for the order. Franciscan Sister of the Immaculate contemplative branch . Now the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate Conception have a first official clarification. That an order which is under provisional control, is not necessarily a given. The Order concluded with the statement that the only speaker of the order continues to be Father General Alessandro Apollonio alone. This is a finding which clearly goes against the false statements of the alleged "speaker" spread by the media.

In the declaration of the order states that the product of Vatican insider "includes defamatory statements against our Founding Father Stefano Maria Manelli, assertions that we must reject. The article also contains false or inaccurate information. "

The Premise for the Decision is "not the truth"

Vatican Insider claimed that the "decision of Pope Bergoglio" was justified by the fact that the "Father General Stefano Manelli has forced all communities of the Franciscans of the Immaculate to exclusively say the extraordinary form of the Roman rite in the liturgy."

In contrast, the official statement of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate Conception says: "This is not true. It is our duty to respond to the best of our knowledge and belief, Father Stefano has never imposed exclusive use of the Old Rite on all communities. "Rather, he celebrates himself in both forms of the Roman rite. It is important to know that the official explanation that, before, during and after the Apostolic Visitation (July 2012-July 2013) as well as today, that the Old Mass was used following a promotion by the Father General with the General Council was "completely legitimate" and advanced "the Vetus Ordo in Respect to the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (2007), in respect of the decisions of our General Chapter of 2008 and in respect of the instruction Universae Ecclesiae (2011)".

By letter dated 21 November 2011 (Protocol 77/2011) was transmitted by the Secretary-General on behalf of the General Council to all branches of the order some guidelines for use of Vetus Ordo (no rules, therefore they represented also no compulsion).

"Even after that some communities have preferred to continue the New Rite instead of the Old Rite. There was apparently therefore no compulsion exerted by Father Manelli. "Some brothers have, however, criticized the letter," said the order in its statement. "Some brothers" apparently already felt the possibility of celebration of the Old Rite went too far and were intriguing against Rome.

Ecclesia Dei Confirmed the Internal Promotion of the Old Mass in Accordance with Benedict XVI.

In the official statement of the order it said, "For this reason we have asked the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei for clarification, in the letter of 14 April 2012, Prot 39/2911L, the compliance of the letter Prot 77/2011 with the "mens" of the Holy Father Benedict XVI. was confirmed in the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae, No. 8."

The anonymous article from Vatican Insider also claimed that the Old Rite could be used only for orders and communities who have been in the "Lefebvrian schism", but were then returned to communion with Rome and placed under the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei.

"In reality, it is necessary to clarify that according Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum (No. 3) and the Instruction Universae Ecclesiae (No. 8a) the Vetus Ordo may be exclusive or 'primarily' may be used by religious institutions that are not of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, and not dependent on coming from the Lefebvrian 'schism'". Besides that, it was never intended to come to an exclusive use by our founder," said the order in its statement.

It was argued further by the article in Vatican Insider: "The Franciscans of the Immaculate, however, are created after the Council and a survey of the brothers has shown that the majority of them wants the celebration in the ordinary rite."

The order took exception here as well: "The fact that we weren't created until after the Council, does not prohibit us of the Franciscans of the Immaculate, to accept the Old Rite or favor. Incidentally, the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum applies (which was published after the Council) and the Institutes of Consecrated Life (without reference to their date) and also the instruction Universae Ecclesiae specifies that it is that goal 'of the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum at No. 8, all the faithful the Roman Liturgy in usus antiquior offer because it is a valuable treasure that must be preserved."

Among 'all believers' is included also the religious."

There was never any "poll" for New Mass - assertion "unfounded"

Regarding the claim of the "survey" and an alleged "majority" of the brothers for the New Rite, (in explanation of the Franciscans of the Immaculate Conception is also expressly mentioned by Speciale in the article from July 30th mentioned by Vatican Insider), according to the official statement of the order, there had been "no survey". "Therefore, the allegations of surveys by an alleged desire of a majority of the brothers is without foundation." Since the order was always bi-ritual, every priest of the order would "continue" to celebrate the New Rite, "as he has always done before." Without further explicitly addressing it, the order firmly asserts execute that there is no justification for the intervention of Rome against the Old Mass.". Regardless of our obedience to the instructions of the Holy See, it is our duty to provide clarity to avoid slander against our founder and hurdles for a peaceful course of the provisional administration."

Tornielli has set out with a hoax - Franciscans react immediately with the second explanation.


In the Declaration, the Congregation for Religious, stressed that their current term Decree was expressly brought by the approval of Pope Francis.

In defense of Vatican Insider it is to add that the first official clarification by the order was issued in full on Sunday.


The Congregation for Religious does not seem to have been concerned about the impact the decree has made decree on pastoral care.

Not only internal to the order, especially for the sister monasteries, but also for the numerous Mass locations in the Old Rite, which are managed by the order. Countless believers are deprived of the Old Mass on the 11th of August, to which they had been long accustomed. The resulting logistical problems and spiritual nature of these believers has not been addressed at all by the Congregation of Religious. Not a word of regret or of encouragement. If it goes against the tradition of the progressive parts of the Roman Curia, and so they behave like a bull in a china shop, and this against a worthy and entirely correctly celebrated liturgy and made the believers to orphans.

A small reconnaissance trip through the parishes in which members of the disobedient priest initiatives in the German speaking involved would suffice to create an abuse register that cries out for intervention. There is enough action. One does not have to look elsewhere for it.

Text: Giuseppe Nardi
Image: Franciscans of the Immaculate
Trams: Tancred vekron99@hotmail.com
AMGD

News Stories -- Vatileaks Traitor Will be Pardoned

I Pardon You.

Pope-Traitor Will be Pardoned -- and Employed Again.

Vatican.  The Pope-traitor Paolo Gabriele will be pardoned in Christmas. This was reported by Giacomo Galeazzi at the site 'vaticaninsider.com'.   Gabriele should even -- outside of the Roman Curia -- receive new employment.  The most important advocate for the Pope-traitor was the earlier Prefect of the Papal Household, Archbishop James Michael Harvey  He has been the new Archpriest of the Basilica of St. Paul before the Walls on Saturday.

A Vaticanist Chooses his Pope

Vatican.  After the Consistory of Saturday there are 120 Cardinals ready to vote.  67 of them -- therefore 56 percent -- were named by Benedict XVI.   The largest part of them are hardened Old Liberals. 62 of the Cardinals -- therefore 52 percent of the Conclave -- come from Europe.  Of them 28 are Italians.  North America has 14 elector Cardinals, Latin America 21, Africa and Asia together have 11 and Oceana has one.  Up until the last Consistorium Vaticanist Andrea Tornielli has chosen the Neoconservative Timothy Cardinal Dolan of New York for a candidate for the Papal office.  Now his favorite is the Old Liberal Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle (55) of Manila.  Tornielli declared this on 'vaticaninsider.com'.


Schüller-Hangers On Will Meet

Austria.  Next year the Viennese Pastor Helmut Schüller -- the leader of the Austrian 'Disobedience Initiative' -- is to organize a worldwide gathering of his followers. The so-called international meething should in any case happen in Germany.  Fr. Schüller is hoping that some wheelchair Priests from Ireland, France, the USA and Australia will roll in.

French Bishops Celebrate Ad Orientem

Italy.  Till Thursday French Bishops from the provinces of Lille, Reims, Paris, Besancon, Dijon, Strasburg, Metz as well as the military diocese are on an ad lumina visit to the Vatican.  On the 19th of November they celebrated a Mass concelebration in the Roman Basilica of St. Maria Maggiore., as the site 'riposte-catholique.fr' reported, ad oriented.  This happened in any case, because there isn't a dinner table in the side chapel that was used.

Link to kreuz.net...

Msgr. Guido Pozzo Promoted to Archbishop as Pope's Almoner

Vatican Logic:  Because he hasn't arrived to his most recent post, he will be promoted to Archbishop.

(kreuz.net, Vatican)  Today at noon, Pope Benedict XVI. named the present Secretary of the Papal Commission Ecclesia Dei, Prelate Guido Pozzo (60), to his Almoner and promoted him to Archbishop.

This was reported by the Vatican press service.

This appointment had been announced already at the end of September by Andrea Tornielli.

Unimportant Function

Msgr. Pozzo will be the successor of the Spanish Bishop de Blanco Prieto (75).

He was the "Almoner to His Holiness" for five years.

This unimportant office is directly under the Pope.  It is an abuse of the Sacrament of Holy Orders to ordain someone a Bishop for it.

Active in the Souvenir Business

The Papal Almoner cares for the Pope's charitable giving and distributes financial assistance.

He is a member of the Papal Household.  Its occupant has am inactive place in the Papal Liturgies of the Pope.

The position also draws income from the marketing of papal blessings on decorative paper. These can be purchased in the souvenir stores around the Vatican.

In the last years, Archbishop Pozzo has been a Vatican discussion partner for the negotiations with the Society of St. Pius X.

Link to kreuz,net...

Vatican Insider: German Bishops Align With Homosexual Media to Eliminate Catholic Site

Edit: Italy's anti-Catholic mainstream news-media outlet 'La Stampa' still manages, despite its clear agenda, to host a Catholic news blog edited by the well-informed if not entirely trustworthy Vaticanista, Andrea Tornielli. Presently, the news blog 'Vatican Insider' has featured a story by Berlin correspondent Alessandro Alviani, attacking Europe's largest and most controversial Catholic website, kreuz.net, accusing them of 'being anti-muslim', 'anti-semitism' and 'homophobia.' Interestingly, the article does indicate that the German Bishops have joined with a homosexual publishing house to attack kreuz.net with the Bruno Gmünder Verlag. This certainly is showing that kreuz.net has earned some powerful enemies within and without the Church, indeed.

What's interesting about this is not so much that they are accusing kreuz.net, but the allies they choose to take along with them in their attempt to besmear the reputation of kreuz.net as they have accused kreuz.net of being false Catholics.

The article calls kreuz.net a "Pseudo-Catholic" site and describes a campaign in Germany, led in part by a homosexual politician of the Green Party, Volker Beck, to silence the newspaper without really getting into the particulars or showing any concern for free speech or even the illegality of this effort with respect to international law.  While the article does describe that the German Bishops are working together with media provocateurs to stop kreuz.net, it doesn't really discuss the anti-Catholic dimensions of this campaign.

The article even bemoans about kreuz.net's alleged "homophobia" and cites the infamous David Berger, who posed as a Traditionalist Catholic for years while teaching theology in Cologne but led a lascivious homosexual lifestyle. Berger's duplicity was exposed by kreuz.net and even still it took a great deal of time until he was removed from his position teaching in a Cologne Catholic high school.  Berger later accused Pope Benedict of being a homosexual and remains an advocate of homosexual causes.

It's official, there's still been no answer received by the Vatican.

Edit: the usual well-wishers wish it were otherwise, but here it is.  The decision still hangs in the balance.


Vatican. [kreuz.net] The Society of St. Pius X has still not delivered an answer to the last edition of the Dogmatic Preamble.  This was spread around in a report from Andrea Tornielli yesterday, and just confirmed by the speaker of the Vatican Press Office, Father Federico Lombardi, for journalists.